Originally Posted by Neepo

I'm actually quite surprised this was never a thread in the Debate section.

Getting to the point, what's your view on the 9/11 attacks (all aspects)?


I just finished watching "Conspiracy Theories with Jesse Ventura", and this is what is was about (the specific episode).


Some things that don't add up:

1) This was the first time *ever* that the black boxes were never recovered after a crash, let alone four on the same day.

Black boxes can withstand up to 3400 g's during impact, and temperatures up to 1000 degrees Celsius (1832 Fahrenheit).

And yet, none were apparently found, but bone fragments the size of nail clippings were DNA matched to victims.

Black boxes are not indestructible... (examples below)

Korean Air (KAL) Boeing MD-11(1999): The aircraft's flight data recorder was destroyed by the impact, "and only fragments of the tape have been recovered".

Eurocopter A350BA(1999): Searchers were hampered by thick brush because very little of the helicopter remained. Even the flight data recorder had been destroyed.

Boeing 747 cargo jet(Ontario[Canada] 2004): It was quickly determined that no recording survived the fire that resulted when the jet, carrying a full load of fuel, hit the ground and broke up.

Two Royal Netherlands Air Force (RNLF) Boeing CH-47D Chinook transport helicopters(2005): Although the crew evacuated safely, the aircraft and its flight data recorder were destroyed in the resulting fire.

"Experts doubted whether all the recorders would be found. The devices aboard the two planes that rammed the World Trade Center towers probably couldn't survive the crash impact and the resulting fires, they said"

--Chicago Tribune article

2) It was claimed that two separate explosions occurred in the first tower, with the first an unknown explosion, the second one being the plane.

Source? Unreliable eyewitness accounts?

3) In the official 9/11 Commission report, like previously stated, no black boxes were found. However, there have been claims that the FBI recovered all of them.

Ventura's "investigation" quotes a shady guy who may or may not have been in any position at all (supposedly he's a grocery store worker who makes money off bullshit 9/11 claims) to see anyone recover any black boxes AND THEN COVER IT UP FOR SUPER SECRET GOVERNMENT CONSPIRACY.

Also, in reality "all four black boxes" were not "supposedly destroyed". The Flight 93 flight data recorders were recovered. The Flight 77 black boxes were also removed from the Pentagon, but one of them (the cockpit voice recorder) was too badly damaged to be used. The only boxes not to be recovered were from the World Trade Center impacts.

4) Apparently, there were hijackers in the cockpits BEFORE the planes even took off.

If recorders only capture audio how the hell are you proving they were in the cockpit prior to takeoff? In addition, you're trusting a shady random guy that the boxes were even recovered, much less had conclusive evidence on anything.

5) There were reports of explosive residue in the dust after the collapse.

From ONE biased pro-tin foil 9/11 conspiracy "scientific" group that published in a new (read not credible) "peer reviewed journal".

6) There were reports that a bomb, or even a missile, blew up the Pentagon, NOT a plane.

Which isn't supported by evidence and is downright ignorant.

Which leads to some questions (and other ones unrelated to previously mentioned things):

1) Why was the USAF on stand down that day?

On 9/11 there were only 14 fighter jets on alert in the contiguous 48 states. No computer network or alarm automatically alerted the North American Air Defense Command (NORAD) of missing planes. "They [civilian Air Traffic Control, or ATC] had to pick up the phone and literally dial us," says Maj. Douglas Martin, public affairs officer for NORAD. Boston Center, one of 22 Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) regional ATC facilities, called NORAD's Northeast Air Defense Sector (NEADS) three times: at 8:37 am EST to inform NEADS that Flight 11 was hijacked; at 9:21 am to inform the agency, mistakenly, that Flight 11 was headed for Washington (the plane had hit the North Tower 35 minutes earlier); and at 9:41 am to (erroneously) identify Delta Air Lines Flight 1989 from Boston as a possible hijacking. The New York ATC called NEADS at 9:03 am to report that United Flight 175 had been hijacked—the same time the plane slammed into the South Tower. Within minutes of that first call from Boston Center, NEADS scrambled two F-15s from Otis Air Force Base in Falmouth, Mass., and three F-16s from Langley Air National Guard Base in Hampton, Va. None of the fighters got anywhere near the pirated planes.

Why couldn't ATC find the hijacked flights? When the hijackers turned off the planes' transponders, which broadcast identifying signals, ATC had to search 4500 identical radar blips crisscrossing some of the country's busiest air corridors. And NORAD's sophisticated radar? It ringed the continent, looking outward for threats, not inward. "It was like a doughnut," Martin says. "There was no coverage in the middle." Pre-9/11, flights originating in the States were not seen as threats and NORAD wasn't prepared to track them.


Debunking the 9/11 Myths: Special Report - The Planes - Popular Mechanics

2) Where are the black boxes, and what's the real situation in the cockpits?

See earlier

And most importantly:

Was this a false flag operation?

NOTE: "False flag operations are covert operations designed to deceive the public in such a way that the operations appear as though they are being carried out by other entities. The name is derived from the military concept of flying false colors; that is, flying the flag of a country other than one's own. False flag operations are not limited to war and counter-insurgency operations, and can be used in peace-time."

No, take the fucking tin foil hat off already.

What's your opinion on all this?

EDIT: from Yahoo Answers: "If your car could accelerate at 3400g, you could do 0-to-60 in less than one thousandth of a second."

Originally Posted by SgtJoo

Conspiracy nutjobs need to give it a rest. 9/11 was the result of a Middle Eastern terrorist cell getting lucky. Regulations have tightened as a result since then... it isn't going to be easy to pull off such a feat again.

If it was a conspiracy, what the hell did we get out of it? Nada.

Originally Posted by Pyro

The new regulations do little more than piss people off. The TSA is ridiculously ineffective, and I think it has been pretty much pure luck that we haven't been attacked again.

Originally Posted by SgtJoo

The new regulations are not limited to the TSA however. I'd say general alertness and awareness of the threat posed has gone up significantly since 9/11. I'd also say that the chain of command and the whole hierarchy of operations like NORAD has improved (response time and so forth) post-9/11.

Originally Posted by SgtJoo

Conspiracy nutjobs need to give it a rest. 9/11 was the result of a Middle Eastern terrorist cell getting lucky. Regulations have tightened as a result since then... it isn't going to be easy to pull off such a feat again.

If it was a conspiracy, what the hell did we get out of it? Nada.

Originally Posted by TheHunter360

If a us army private can leak thousands of classified documents on to the Internet what makes you think somebody wouldn't come clean by now

Originally Posted by Pyro

Because people who come clean about the government get stripped of their human rights and thrown in American prisons. At least, that's the case for Bradley Manning.

Originally Posted by Imunality

It's a luxury attainable after salary, which you might be unfamiliar with. :\___/

Originally Posted by Dante

Having less money is a luxury? Ok.

Originally Posted by Colts23

Wiki is full of lies most of the time. Stupid people can edit it to anything they want.

Originally Posted by Imunality

It's a luxury attainable after salary, which you might be unfamiliar with. :\___/

Originally Posted by Dante

Having less money is a luxury? Ok.