Greg

Well, this is just me expressing me opinion on music in general. You may not all agree but meh.

Ok, as most of you may know, my favourite music genre is Metal, and most of it's sub-genres. This isn't referred to anyone here, but I simply cannot stand so many people out there for their ignorance in this field.

Just as an example, I had a friend over the other day, and was watching a video of my favourite band's drummer play some solos. These were in the 90's and the dude had pretty long hair, and you know, the metal-aspect.
First thing I hear from him (who likes just any music that goes mainstream and has basically no knowledge about anything that has to do with music) is "Man, that-guy's-on-drugs much"? This really, really gets me angry. This isn't the first and definitely won't be the last time I hear something like this said to me. It has happened so many times before that I've lost count. People seem to think that someone with long hair that's in a metal band is either on drugs or an alcoholic. The drummer I'm talking about did have alcohol problems and managed to surpass them. He even made songs about his mistakes and how he is sorry to have done it.

Anyway, that's not the point. The point is people can't learn to respect musicians for their talent. I'm not trying to say that no one should be listening to anything other than what I like, but they need to at least respect the real, talented musicians, not call them drug addicts without even knowing who they are. Go ahead, listen to Britney Spears, Beyonce, and all those other mainstream singers, that don't even sing in their own concerts for one simple reason: they don't know how to. Mainstream "singers" if I dare to call them that are not singers at all, but are actors, stage actors.

A few more things:
1. Instrumental songs. As you can tell from the title, there are no vocals in these types of songs. I'll just make yet another example of some stuff that has actually been said to me. Stuff like "That's not music, it's just rythm", "I don't want to listen to 10 minutes of just drums, it's so boring", "Serj Tankian is a lot more talented than a variety of metal bands". My theory on this is: You say that kind of stuff because of the music you listen to. That music has only rythm in the background, because the vocals are the only thing that mainstream fans want to hear. [sarcasm] Who cares about instruments, music is vocals, not instruments [/sarcasm]. If the musicians that play for people like Serj Tankian tried to make an instrumental song, they would fail. That's the mainstream mind set.

2. Growl vocals. Ok, I know a lot of you will not like these types of vocals, but it's not a vocalist singing with a sore throat, but it's a type of singing. Everyone that I ever talk to about music says that growl vocals are stupid and take no skill. My response to this non-sense is: Why don't you try singing like that then? Their response: I can't my throat will get sore. Me: That's exactly my point, you douche.

Anyway, I'm not trying to encourage anyone to switch musical genres, but I'd like people to recognize talent in musicians, not look at their tits and judge them from that, which is exactly what's going on in today's mainstream music field.

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I love you John.

Cloud

Gooo greg!

Yeah like whatever music you want but just don't be so close minded and just assume that we all cut our wrists because i'm listening to metallica ok?

go greg

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Olaf Vikingsson

Coming from a former prog death metal lead, growling vocals are piss-easy and really shouldn't qualify as a form of singing.

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Cloud

It's not easy to do well, I bet very few people here could do it right.

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Greg

Well, maybe if you have at least some singing experience, growl won't be as hard as it would be for people (like me) that suck at singing. I still doubt that it's easy.

Try listening to Akerfeldt or Necrophagist, then compare them to amateur growl.

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MoleMania

My main problem with growling/screaming is that it always sounds the same, whereas clean singers tend to vary a lot more. Aside from this, I agree pretty much on all parts of what you've said.

However, I do like tits.

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Cloud

Well an example of a problem I have with this is that most people just hate on metal like before even a second of listening, but we have to listen to all the lady gaga and black eyed peas all day long and well we can't do anything about it, for me it's on in the car, it's on in the line at subway and it's on when I get back to school. I suggest some metallica which to be honest isn't really that heavy and at that are even one of the more succesful or mainstream bands if you will, can I do it? nope I am near put out the window.

Discuss.

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MoleMania

Ignorance is part of today's culture. End of. There will always be the bandwagonners and sheep of society that will unquestionably follow trends and popular culture, and it's something we just have to deal with and move on. It's got to the point where an open mind is somewhat rare and that the most common opinions are being treated as facts. It sucks really.

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HBK

Exactly what I think, except I like the other kind of tits.

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Greg

So, this: YouTube - Necrophagist- Stabwound

...And this: YouTube - SiKtH - hold my finger

sound the same to you?

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I love you John.

MoleMania

Not really, but I didn't really mean the style of screaming in the second link. Sorry if I wasn't too clear.

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Cloud

Greg, do a rant part 2 you left a lot out! =P =P

<3

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Nibbles

Greg, I agree with some of your points and can see how you're pissed off but for much of your post, you're making as many generalisations about Pop music as you're claiming others are making about your preferred genre - it's a little hypocritical.

Yeah, Britney doesn't sing on stage but most of her contemporaries do. I struggle to think of many of them as artists from a musical perspective but they are certainly good at what they do as entertainers - not that I'm into that kinda stuff mind you.


I've no doubt that the guys you mention are talented, and I'm sure to make a "good" growling sound (whatever that is) requires skill in the same way something like a Yodel does. Though like yodeling, I can't help but giggle whenever I hear someone making all those silly sounds ("raaawwwrrrrrrrrr") and expecting to be taken seriously. But hey, that's just me.

Like any form of art, appreciation of music is subjective. In saying that, I don't believe anyone who listens purely to the filtered mainstream stuff really appreciates music as much as those that find alternatives and explore other forms of music. The people in the "middle of the road" may like music but they don't love music.

Greg

I see what you're saying, but people saying that any pop singer is more talented than John Petrucci is simply ridiculous. Mainstream singers don't even dress like they want to a lot of the timebecause the record company tells them what to wear and how to look with only one objective: making money. Mainstream also ruins bands that you could of called decent before they got into mainstream.

That is precisely why I think people that don't appreciate real musician's talent are ignorant in music tastes. I may not like classical music for example, but I appreciate the musicians for their talent. There's nothing to appreciate in mainstream.

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JoLo

I don't agree with this at all...I think artists like Celine Dion have immense talent vocally, and she is considered a "pop" artist. Mariah Carey also has an insane vocal range...Pink, Christina...The only one of those artists I like (and it's usually when she sings slower songs) is Pink. I don't ever listen to Celine Dion or Mariah Carey...can't stand their music but vocally they are amazing. There are tons of people who write, produce and sing their own music. The Beatles were Popular Music...but talented in their own right. As were a lot of classic "oldies" music. Will people like Britany Spears and Beyonce have longevity? Most likely not...but only time will allow us to see what real talent lies.

(Want to hear Pink in something not "pop" listen to her cover of "Me and Bobby McGee" a Janis Joplin cover.)

Music is a 100% relavite art form. There is no superior music, no genre or type that is any better than the other. It's like saying Van Gogh is better than Monet. People will argue art til the death but there is no facts, there is no guidelines. As long as there are people out there to appreciate it you will get bands like Backstreet Boys and Dream Theater. As long as someone has thought to create it and someone will listen...it will be around. And I feel I am quite tolerant of musical opinions because I have been to hardcore shows and I have seen all sorts of bands live. From Bush (back in the 90's) to System of a Down to Chemical Brothers to Black Eyed Peas to Justin Timberlake to a Symphony.

You can't expect anyone to appreciate your music for what it is, if you can't appreciate theirs. It's all just...relative.

(Still you Greggggaoiwenfodifgvnofaigh)

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Greg

*Discussed on MSN* :P

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Olaf Vikingsson

A comparison between Monet and my primary-school stickman doodles would be a more apt comparison for the point that Greg's making.

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Flyt

I have an older persons (than most around there) perspective and times and taste in music change both in individuals and whats considered pop music. My teen years were in the late 70's and early 80's. I was in your shoes back then ranting about how my favorite bands didn't get respect bands like the Sex Pistols, Judas Priest and Black Sabbath on the more popular side and bands like Y&T and Hanoi Rocks on the more obscure side (25 years later I'm still pissed at the lead singer of Motley Crew killing the lead singer of Hanoi Rocks while drunk driving). Some were eventually accepted as decent bands and others never made it even though I liked them more than the ones that "made it". I still break out the old cassettes and make my kids mad every now and then.

I guess my point is....roll with it. You're never gonna change their minds.

My tastes have changed over the years but still dont like most stuff considered "pop", but I keep my ears open and there are songs that come along that I do like every now and then. I've gone much more mellow and listen to bands that would probably make you want to do a Van Gogh, things like Kingston Trio, Gaelic Storm, Los Lobos, and Jack Johnson.

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JoLo

How about...Rembrant and Warhol, considering he was "pop" art.

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Olaf Vikingsson

Greg's referring to levels of musical skill, not layman's appreciations of artists' end products.

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Flyt

No it covered both areas you mentioned plus stereotypes projected by the "look" of the musicians.

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MoleMania

While there is some good pop stuff out there, the majority of poopular music nowadays is usually manufactured crap from untalented people. People who can't write their own songs, and who's popularity is based on good looks, style etc. The reason for this often isn't always because of the artist, it's usually the record label trying to cater for the mass market.

The modern music industry is based purely on money and recouping investments. Making a quick buck. They don't care about the quality and talent of the artist as much now, so as long they fit current trends and are marketble - BAM! you're in. Usually for a short amount of time, as many of these one hit wonders make up the current popular music scene. There is no real risk involved any more. Major labels rarely take a risk in fear of them losing PRECIOUS MONEYS, instead of making millions. Older successful bands like Queen may not even get a shot if they were new in this current music scene.

For independant labels it's usually different, as it involves more freedom for signed artists, but at the cost of less popularity. This freedom can easily generate talent, as major labels restrict artists greatly, but whether or not it gets to anyone is the question.

Conclusion: Major labels are the ones to blame for the lack of talent in current pop. Their reluctance to take risks keeps them at this stage - but do they really care? NO.
They is making moneys you see. And who is buying? The masses. Do either really appreciate talent? Nah.

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Greg

Thank you.

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I love you John.

MoleMania

There's a perfectly nice "thanks" button for that!

Just kidding, but I feel lonely being one of the few who haven't been thanked before.

EDIT: Yay I feel accepted. ^__^

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Flyt

Greg, I'm surprised you didn't mention the huge crutch that mainstream pop singers/record labels use to cover up their shortcomings.... auto tune. That crap can make any no talent hack sound like they know what they are doing.

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