Broken Game or Broken Community?

[Alk]

Originally Posted by TheHunter360

One word

LAG!

You think mw2 is laggy, then u have never played gow

[Nibbles]

I don't think any real game balance issues have been brought up in this thread yet, though I'm keen to see ViS's writeup on it.

But either way, IMO if people feel so strongly about a problem in a video game that not only do they they take the time to write about how much it sucks but they also continue to play it, they probably should find another game or something else to occupy their time with.

It just seems bizzare to me. Eg, I don't like Skiing but I don't feel compelled to log onto Skiing enthusiest web forums and bitch and moan about it.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for discussing game balance, game mechanics, improvements, etc. but I don't get why people who hate a game, spend their time playing it and talking about how much they think it sucks.... and then play the game some more.

[amorant]

Originally Posted by Alk

Really? Your gonna be like that? You missunderstoodme. I'm not saying commando is fair, I was correcting you. And accusing u of camping really isn't a insult. Everyone camps a bit, if u say u don't camp at all, ur a liar. And the spawn system in mw2 tries to place players near teammates or away from danger . So of your team is pushing up. And u completely taken over, they'll respawn behind you. I'm not trying to say that u can't use any weapons, u miss understood me yet again, you guys are going on about imbalance, and I'm trying to defend my point that the game's not so broken. I'm not saying I'm right, but because I've taken this point in this debate, I'll stand my ground.

if i miss understood you i apologize,i thought you were saying i was in private matches boosting
how were you correcting me?did you or did you not say that he is invincible?
and if you have not had someone spawn right near you while not camping, i would like to know what game your playing.also spawning temates close to other teamates sucks too.running with a cold blooded class infiltrating the enimies turf, and boom youve got three team mates with unsuppressed weapons,and no cold blooded perk right next to you.now granted i couldnt come up with a better spawning system.


if i miss understood you i apologize,i thought you were saying i was in private matches boosting

"I presume that you mean on those private/pub matches" what are you trying to say?

[Alk]

Originally Posted by amorant

if i miss understood you i apologize,i thought you were saying i was in private matches boosting
how were you correcting me?did you or did you not say that he is invincible?
and if you have not had someone spawn right near you while not camping, i would like to know what game your playing.also spawning temates close to other teamates sucks too.running with a cold blooded class infiltrating the enimies turf, and boom youve got three team mates with unsuppressed weapons,and no cold blooded perk right next to you.now granted i couldnt come up with a better spawning system.


if i miss understood you i apologize,i thought you were saying i was in private matches boosting

I was saying that commando is a glitch where when u lunge, u r temp invincible in the lunging animation, I'm saying it's a fault. And I generally play ground war if I'm solo or HC or noneHC SnD if I'm partying... I move around fairly close to teams, though I have stayed back before, but they don't spawn behind me, since the maps r big, it's pretty hard for them to spawn behind u

[Voodoo]

To me it feels as though MW2 is a beta. Hang on, that's because the arrogant cunts didn't release one.
You would have thought that they would have tested the maps, put objectives at balanced locations, made the geography of the maps themselves balanced. Whoever has the Estate on Estate wins, if you don't blow up bomb site B on afghan first you lose, etc, the list goes on.
The coding problems with the Models, fucked spawning system, overpowered kill streak rewards, you'd think that they could have resolved all thes issues by having a beta version.
If ViS does do that essay it'll be good readin'

[amorant]

Originally Posted by King Voodoo

To me it feels as though MW2 is a beta. Hang on, that's because the arrogant cunts didn't release one.
You would have thought that they would have tested the maps, put objectives at balanced locations, made the geography of the maps themselves balanced. Whoever has the Estate on Estate wins, if you don't blow up bomb site B on afghan first you lose, etc, the list goes on.
The coding problems with the Models, fucked spawning system, overpowered kill streak rewards, you'd think that they could have resolved all thes issues by having a beta version.
If ViS does do that essay it'll be good readin'

i also have been saying this for a while too. alot of this could have been fixed with a public beta

[Alk]

Good point, did cod4 have a beta? I know that WAW had a beta

[Sarcross]

The developer is not obligated to release a beta, just as they aren't obligated to release a demo. The fact the Treyarch had resources to allocate towards a beta is reflected a bit in their work.

Regardless of the game, there are going to be problems. Just because they fix one thing, doesn't mean that a multitude of other problems won't arise in response to the altered coding.

Besides all of that... who's choice was it to get and play the game?

[aKa LANCE]

One of the reasons ive gone back to CoD4 is that MW2s release has done it a world of good. The people who are left on CoD4 use juggernaught far less, never use 3x frag anymore and i havent seen matyrdom in over a week. All the dickheads moved on to MW2 which has left CoD4 much more fun to play.

So to an extent it is the fault of the community as this example clearly shows yet my general outlook is that if the developers put overpowered shit in a game its bound to be manipulated and so actually the game is to blame in the end, hell even i cant resist noob tubing with OMA every now and again.

[Downside]

I think the main difference is the play style in cod4 is completely different to mw2. So all us cod4 veterans are finding it hard to adjust. I got really frustrated playing mw2 for ages before i adjusted my play style and am now starting to get used to it.

It is definitely broken in some aspects such as over powered set ups and glitches, no dedi's on PC etc which is a shame because it has the potential to be a really amazing game. It just needs a few things ironing out.

[chaR]

Originally Posted by Alk

okay so you say mw2 is imbalanced, i honestly think that cod4 and WAW are more imbalanced, though mw2 does have the 1887's, ill give you that one. but really? .

woah man, just woah

i wouldnt know how waw is, but cod4 more imbalanced then mw2? What the hell are you smoking?

That aside I only play mw2 because:

1) all my friends do
2) i never played cod4 much, so i aint really that good at it, thus i cba playing
3) after ~7 years of cs1.6, the gfx make my eyes bleed
4) cs source compared to 1.6 is as mw2 is to mw1

If there was any better option availible atm, trust me, id never touch mw2 again

[Dante]

Communities themselves are almost never the problem. Glitches and exploits couldn't be used unless the game was made broken to start with. Overpowered weapons wouldn't exist if the game company bothered to create a balanced game in the first place.

Everything "broken" in MW2 is a result of bad or careless programming.

[Alphabuster187]

Broken Record more like it... enough.

[darthpetale]

I enjoyed COD4 and WAW yes they had flaws but not enough to spoil em for me anyway. Im enjoying MW2 as well but i have a nagging doubt about it , i like the weapons , the maps not so much but i think its all the killstreaks which are slightly ruining it , i think the old system was simpler ( 3 kills -uav, 7 kills/chopper or dogs) and better , in saying that IW had to come up with something different than COD4 or they would have been accused of releasing an expansion pack.

[XChickendoodlesX]

Originally Posted by alk

a lot of people, mainly cod4 vets are going on and on about how mw2 sucks, and everyone should just go back to cod4. Honestly, i think that is pretty much one of the dumbest ideas ever. The game is not broken imo, i mean sure the models are over-powered and the matchmaking is broken. But everything else that is being cried foul over is community-based, like the javelin glitch, started by glitchers. Private/public matches, started by glitchers. Speed glitch, also started by glitchers. Its not the game that honestly broken, its the players, there's no way to fix that, its not different in cod4 either, there was the 3x frags, jugs, martyrdoms, m16s, and spawn-trapping. Where as on mw2, half of those are no longer problems, except painkiller.... But the spawn trapping only exists on highrise imo, and al ot of the other gripes from cod4 is fixed.

I just see it that to fix a game is not to go back in time, but to progress and go forth in time to see what we as a community can do, and not just be all ignorant and run back because things go different...

What im trying to say though my random babling is that. I really dont think that the game is broken, but rather that the community is close-minded and breaking the game, because we all hate eachother so we do lame stuff to sabotage eachother.

Thats just my 2 cents... Post what you think. I hope this doesnt start a flame war..

i love you! Finaly someone who has my idea

[bizzbizz]

Took me a while but I'm enjoying MW2, as I'm fairly new to online gaming (COD 4 was my first real experience, and I skipped WAW) I have fond memories of 4. MW2 seems to be more of the same but expanded, new ideas, some good some bad. So I guess MW2 will never have the impact that 4 had on me, however I am not going to give up on it, its too much fun.

[SlayersRage]

I didn't enjoy CoD4 that much, but MW2? Love it!
The only problems I have with are Lag, Akimbo Shotguns, and the 10ft lunge with the commando perk.
@ Alk, yes I've played GOW.

[ToomsYF]

i really like the majority of the new additions, including all the kill streaks. yes there are a few issues - which ultimately would probably have been found/fixed had their been a BETA - but overall I think it is a great game.

At least as good as MW and imo better than W@W. And as it is new, with lots of new challenges/achievments to unlock I will keep playing it. And hope that the few remaining problems get fixed soon.

[kebab]

Originally Posted by Dante

Communities themselves are almost never the problem. Glitches and exploits couldn't be used unless the game was made broken to start with. Overpowered weapons wouldn't exist if the game company bothered to create a balanced game in the first place.

Everything "broken" in MW2 is a result of bad or careless programming.

Totally agree Dante

Your post in a nut shell covers the game as far as the community is concerned from a PC players point of view a community doesnt exist in MW2 no longer are there 20+ friends from around the world meeting for 5 or 6 hours of fun as we have had in the past games instead your playing with at best 5 or 6 friends local to you if you can all join the same game which isnt allways possible

Endless flame wars and kids making there mouths go hackers run riot and spoil the game for everyone and nothing is done about it every fix IW bring out causes more problems in other areas the list is endless and i have never seen any game with this many problems just after its release

Perhaps they should have released it in the spring so they could work out the problems first with a beta version as it clearly wasnt ready for release in November

One thing for sure some console players will never understand why PC players moan about this game and some PC players will never understand why console players like it

Each to there own personally i took my copy back unopened for a refund so i dont own the game however i have played it at a friends but half an hour to an hour is all i can take at any one time

However i can play COD 4 or WAW for 5,6,7 and even 8 hours and still have fun and enjoy myself with friends i have had for years on servers 4,000 miles away and still do well

[Fed-Up]

The game is broken, and the community plays on that.
My views WILL be heavily colored by the platform I'm using, the PC, and how the earlier games in the series were.

First off, as many already have stated, the game is unbalanced.
Now, don't get me wrong, stuff in the previous CoDs were unbalanced too. Noobtubes in CoD4, some map-balance issues (one side being inferior to the other on some maps), The MP40 got a lot of hassle in WaW (but it did never brake the game). And killstreaks have been a balance-issue since the release of CoD4.. (I curse the day some idiot at IW made up something that gives the winning team more leverage, while at the same time promotes camping..) ...and of course you had the bullshit of Last Stand and Martyrdom.

While these things were a major pain in CoD4, you also had dedicated servers, some with custom rules and good admins, some without rules and admins. You could find a nice servers with a good group of regular players, good admins, and a rule-set that took away the annoyances of Marty-Noob-Standing.
There were also a few servers with nerfed killstreaks, and if that wasn't enough, there were quite a few mods to either balance the game, change the whole game, or make funmodes like zombimode.
Where IW failed, admins and modders could change and adapt to a more balanced, or at least a better tailored experience.

Now, in MW2, the problems are FAR worse than the previous games. Last Stand is still there (but now you can use equipment while lying there). Noobtubes are still there there (but now they don't take up a perk-slot, you can resupply with scavenger or OMA, and you can also have a secondary noobtube if you want to use one or two other attachments). For those that disliked Juggernaut, they will be happy to see that it is removed (but replaced with something that, with the broken spawnsystem, can be ten times worse).
...also, guns have no sway (well, sniperrifles still have sway. Those are the guns with most sway in the whole game.. Funny thing that), little recoil, if you get hit repeatedly you won't be able to aim, you got Thermal and HB-sensors, you got sniper-knifing + the still not fixed carepackage-glitch.
Just about all the maps are horribly balanced.
...and the crème de la crème called killstreaks, topped with the game-ending nuke.
...and also the fact that you have to pretty much be lvl30 to be able to combat a killstreak, or at least 25 to avoid it.
Even if you have cold blooded + stingers you often won't be able to combat a chopper-gunner or an AC-130, because of the at times horrible spawn(rape)ingsystem, that will spawn all of you in a big red and whiteglowing cluster, death after death, same spot.
When half the games can be won in 7 kills, you know you have a broken system.

Well, lets have some well-administered servers with nerfed killstreaks, or just pick one of the many mods out there, for instance one of the competitive, you say?
Well, that's the worst of it all; That is no longer an option, thanks to the senseless removal of dedicated servers, effectively killing the entire CoD modding community, competitive community, while at the same time taking a big chunk of the casual communities, that no longer can run their own servers.
The lobbysystem does not only do that, but it also makes it MUCH harder for clanners and friends to play together.
On the previous games you could just "Hey man, why don't you join me? I'm on the 'clan acronym here' server", or "I'm at 'IP-adress here'", or "Since wer'e so many online, why don't we fire up one of these empty servers?".
On the previous games you wouldn't be forced to play on the same team to play together, you wouldn't have to stack every damned game.
On the previous games, you wouldn't have to attempt to get into a game for over 10 minutes to possibly more than half an hour to get into a game with your 5 or 8 (or more*) friends. (Record so far was just under 40 minutes of trying to get into a game, with random people getting booted off because "Could not migrate host" (even though the rest of the gang got into the game), "Game lobby closed" (even though the rest of the gang got into the game), "Server is full." (while the rest of the gang got into the game), or just by randomly without notice suddenly get moved to another lobby.

*There is a trick to get into the same game without being on the same team; Don't enter each others party, but have one of the guys trying to find a game, while the others immediately join on him before he's got time to find one. You will then be able to play together as a big group, without stacking, or have anybody omitted as the stack is too big to join a game.

PS. Sorry for the at times unorganized wall of text. Can't be arsed to polish it.

[TheHunter360]

Originally Posted by Alk

You think mw2 is laggy, then u have never played gow

Oh no I remember GOW2. Its MP was a lot worse then MW2, but that doesn't excuse MW2.

[DarthViking1]

Broken game or broken community? I say a little of both! Although you have to put a little more blame on the developers as they are the ones who made the game in the first place and are collecting $60 every time someone picks a copy of it up! So the responsibility of fixing things falls back on the devs. Still, there is something about the first one that I'm missing since I've been playing MW2. Good thing I kept it!

[N3V3R SL33P]

This goes on IW:
The old 1887s
swayless/recoil-less ARs
ARs on steroids
the nullification of sub machine guns minus the UMP
recoil-less LMGs
care package speed
one bolt action sniper with stupid recoil (you stay scoped in)
NO PARTIES ALLOWED!!!!!!!!!


Community's fault:
Camping
Marathon, Lightweight, Commando abuse
^^with care package^^
Nuke boosting
any other kind of boosting
finding glitches (always a community thing)
Rust 18 person FFA thing

[joemiken]

For those that think people are invincible while in the Commando lunge, try a shotgun. When I was on my tac knife spree last month, I hardly ever won a head to head battle w/ a shotgun, even if I was in mid-stab.

[PrkchpsNaplsaws]

Originally Posted by ViS

I've already said it. The game's horribly imbalanced. There are just too many things wrong with it to list. I'll write you an essay in the morning if you really can't figure it out for yourself.

The only time i see people saying that a game is "imbalanced" is when they're losing & their ego refuses to accept reality.

This game *DOES* have problems. Too many glitches, too much lag, too many 14 year old dip shits who don't deserve a chance at life, let alone this game.

But to say weapons are unbalanced is just being a pussy.

No other way to cut it, really.