PC: Apparently random freeze - Modern Warfare 2 Forum: Free Call of Duty MW2 Community

lamanga2004 · 09-07-2010, 09:38 AM

Hi, first post here, treat me gently.

I've been playing COD MW2 since it came out on PC. Problem is, ever since I bought the game it suffers from random freezes. Every now and again I get a BSOD, and also every now and again I get a windows error box and the game crashes to desktop.

99% or more of the time, though, it freezes and the only solution is a hard reboot (i.e. hold down the power button for 5 seconds) - Alt-Tab and Ctrl-Alt-Del don't work.

Accompanying the freeze is a repeated snippet of the last sound that was playing. This sound repeats about 10 times a second and so sounds a little like this:

Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.....

or

Tehtehtehtehtehtehtehtehteh.....

or whatever, I hope you get the idea of what it sounds like.

This can happen 5 seconds into my first game (like just now), or it can happen after a few hours.

It can go away for a while (e.g. a few uninterrupted sessions of a few hours each), or it can happen each time I play the game following a hard reboot.

This is truly pissing me off. It also pisses off my mates when I am host, and even more so when I am host and party leader and one of them has a big kill streak about to be unleashed!

No other software does this to my machine.

So, what is my system?

XP Pro SP3
3.25GB RAM
ATI HD4800 series GPU
Realtek audio drivers
Intel Core Duo E8400 @ 3.0 GHz
OCZ 500W StealthXStream PSU
500GB HDD
USB mouse and keyboard

I have recently:

updated GPU drivers
updated Realtek drivers
updated AMI BIOS
updated MoBo drivers
updated to latest DirectX 9.0c drivers
disconnected extra fans from 12V2 rail of PSU
used nearest connectors from 12V2 rail for all other peripherals
checked CPU and GPU temps - nothing out of the ordinary at the point of crashing - especially when it crashes after 5 seconds!
tried disabling all other non-essential processes prior to starting game
run memtest and all is OK
run Aida if anyone wants the report
run Belarc if anyone wants the report
reinstalled XP and game
verified Steam cache
moved resolution down
moved Video options to their most basic
done quite a few other things that I can't even remember

Can anyone think what might be causing this?

My current mode of thinking is PSU issues, i.e. not that the OCZ is glitchy, but that the stuff in my PC is causing too much current drain under high load. I don't know what the max load is of a HD4800 series graphics card, but the 12V2 rail on the OCZ PSU delivers 18A.

Anyway, I know not much about PCs and issues. If anyone could help, I would be very grateful.

In fact, I would be positively ecstatic. It is so depressing having to reboot my machine 3, 4 and more times every night.

Thanks in advance.

Rich - UK

oneinchwunda · 09-07-2010, 09:58 AM

I doubt it's a PSU issue. That OCZ should be perfectly fine, unless you have a 4890, in which case, it may be a little close to the limit.

lamanga2004 · 09-07-2010, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oneinchwunda

I doubt it's a PSU issue. That OCZ should be perfectly fine, unless you have a 4890, in which case, it may be a little close to the limit.

Thanks oneinch. I am just trying to narrow down the root cause, because this is properly driving me nuts.

Without wanting to sidetrack my thread, the only info I can find about the card is that it is a HD 4800 series. Nothing more specific than that, although I don't think it is as new as the 4890. The PC is a hand-me-down I got from my dad.

oneinchwunda · 09-07-2010, 10:06 AM

No problem.

Try this: CPUID - System & hardware benchmark, monitoring, reporting

A nifty little program that shows us all your specs.

Serval · 09-07-2010, 10:14 AM

Although for the life of me I can't remember how, you can set your computer to display a bsod for a while rather than auto rebooting which should allow you to read the error message/code and google it.

I will investigate how and edit it in.

Edit:
"Right Click on “My Computer” and go to “Properties”. Then go to the “Advanced” tab and under the headline “Startup and Recovery”, press the “Settings” button. Untick the “Automatically Restart” box and press Ok."

lamanga2004 · 09-07-2010, 10:30 AM

Thanks Serval. Done that, so on the rare occasion I do get a BSOD, at least I'll be able to get a note of the error plus I also asked it to do a kernel dump.

Remember, though, this machine just freezes 99% of the time and the only remedy is a hard reboot (hold down power button for 5 seconds).

oneinchwunda · 09-07-2010, 10:31 AM

Wait for abc. He knows EVERYTHING about computers.

lamanga2004 · 09-07-2010, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oneinchwunda

No problem.

Try this: CPUID - System & hardware benchmark, monitoring, reporting

A nifty little program that shows us all your specs.

Super. For the first time I know it is an HD 4850!

**abc** · 09-07-2010, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oneinchwunda

Wait for abc. He knows EVERYTHING about computers.

LOL you suck, so much expectation

I have a very similar (read: identical?) sounding issue however mine has only started relatively recently, MW2 used to work fine.

* Does this happen on single player too?
* When it crashes with the error message in windows, any chance you can read what it says? I don't often have any luck because the game, whilst opened, is programmed to stay on top of anything else (e.g. the error message) so I can't read it but with a lot of shift+tab, ctrl+alt+del or the windows key I sometimes manage to see the error message.
* Does it freeze and loop sound for a few seconds, then act fine for a few seconds, then do it again etc before having a random break (as you say sometimes it works fine)
* Does it seem to happen more when killstreaks are going on? (this may just be me getting twice as annoyed when it always seems to lock up during me steering a predator)

I, for refference, have a HD4830 (Club3D for what it's worth) and again a motherboard with Realtek onboard sound using driver 6.0.1.6101

lamanga2004 · 09-07-2010, 11:24 AM

* Does this happen on single player too? I can't remember - I bought the game for multiplayer.

* When it crashes with the error message in windows, any chance you can read what it says? I don't often have any luck because the game, whilst opened, is programmed to stay on top of anything else (e.g. the error message) so I can't read it but with a lot of shift+tab, ctrl+alt+del or the windows key I sometimes manage to see the error message. On the rare occasion that it crashes to desktop, it is iw4mp.exe that is at fault.

* Does it freeze and loop sound for a few seconds, then act fine for a few seconds, then do it again etc before having a random break (as you say sometimes it works fine)? No never. You never get a warning, and 99% of the time it is just BOOM! Frozen. Hard reboot needed.

* Does it seem to happen more when killstreaks are going on? (this may just be me getting twice as annoyed when it always seems to lock up during me steering a predator) No, I don't think so. It can happen, for example like earlier, literally 5 seconds into a game. i.e. you run about 10 metres and then BOOM! Frozen. There's hardly anything going on so early in the game.

**abc** · 09-07-2010, 12:53 PM

Ah ok, I misinterpretted this somewhat. Things like this are really difficult where there are no useful error messages etc, you just have to try lots of stuff (which you have already) until you get somewhere.

I was going to say that this sounds like a memory issue but memtest is pretty solid which only leaves page files, how much free space do you have on your hard drive? If you don't have a lot of space left (e.g. sub 5GB) then it is likely your page file will be reduced by windows. Likewise if the OS/PC is configured for much less than 4GB of RAM (i.e. if you added some after the initial purchase) then it could be possible your page file is far too small. Follow these steps and make sure the page file size is set to "automatic" or "managed by windows" or w/e the wording is.

1) Click Start, click Run, type sysdm.cpl in the Open box, and then press ENTER.
2) Click the Advanced tab, and then under Performance click Settings.
3) Click the Advanced tab, and then under Virtual memory click Change.
4) Under Drive [Volume Label], click the drive that contains the paging file that you want to change.

If it's already on automatic and you have loads of free space on your HDD, you could try increasing it manually. Going mental and setting it to 50 GB won't do anything, but if you have enough space on the HDD try doubling it's size:

5) Under Paging file size for selected drive, click Custom size, type a new paging file size in megabytes (MB) in the Initial size (MB) or Maximum size (MB) box, and then click Set.
Click OK to close the dialog box and apply changes.

lamanga2004 · 09-07-2010, 07:19 PM

OK. It's 00:17, I just got back from pal's house. Applied changes and let's see what happens.

Initial size was 2046 MB. Changed it to 4092.

Max size was, and remains, 4092.

Edit: 00:32 - lasted the first game of Demolition, but Steam network went down...
Edit: 00:51 - just hard rebooted after a crash a couple of minutes ago.

Not page file size then.

Nibbles · 09-07-2010, 08:23 PM

There's a great guide here on the Windows Debug tool and analysing dump files with the Windows Debugger: How to solve Windows system crashes in minutes

If you'd rather not go through all that, I might be able to check out the dump file for you if you can upload it somewhere, though I can't make any promises. Bored at work.

Check under C:\Windows\Minidump for the dump files after a crash, you'll just need the latest. If there is nothing there, you may have to enable the dump logging (Control Panel | System | Advanced | Startup / Recovery Settings | Select "Small Memory Dump 64K") and wait for the next crash.

lamanga2004 · 09-08-2010, 05:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nibbles

There's a great guide here on the Windows Debug tool and analysing dump files with the Windows Debugger: How to solve Windows system crashes in minutes

If you'd rather not go through all that, I might be able to check out the dump file for you if you can upload it somewhere, though I can't make any promises. Bored at work.

Check under C:\Windows\Minidump for the dump files after a crash, you'll just need the latest. If there is nothing there, you may have to enable the dump logging (Control Panel | System | Advanced | Startup / Recovery Settings | Select "Small Memory Dump 64K") and wait for the next crash.

Cheers Nibbles. I've attached three small memory dumps from the last few times it crashed to desktop. If you could take a look, I'll also install .NET Framework and the Debugging Tools and have a play with them later.

Nibbles · 09-08-2010, 06:06 AM

Cool, I might be able to take a look tomorrow, getting late over this side of the world.

Grab an older release of Debug Tools from last year - I don't think you need to mess with .NET 4 that way.. I don't have it on my machine.

Go to Hardware Developer Debugging Tools for Windows 32-bit version and scroll down the bottom for previous releases.

Good luck!

EDIT: Meh, I took a look anyway - got nothing better to do tonight!

I checked the most recent dump file. I wont quote all the debugger output but basically you get a big fat SYSTEM_THREAD_EXCEPTION_NOT_HANDLED_M which appears to be associated with ati3duag.dll

At a glance, it appears that your ATI drivers are doing strange things but I did a little searching via google to see if this is common. I came across this interesting thread: http://www.ngohq.com/graphic-cards/1...-death-et.html

Take a look - the criteria listed in that post matches not only the problem you're experiencing but a few other things I found in the your dump file, particularly the unloaded audio modules. Basically the guy thinks it has something to do with how audio echo effects are handled by the MS Mixer drivers.

Of course, it might not be the same issue (it could very well have to do with your gfx card drivers) and the link above is an old post from 2007, so you may already have the patches mentioned installed, but hopefully the info in the debug tool will get you closer to identifying your machines specific problem.

Personally, I'd roll back the gfx drivers to different versions and see if that helps, possibly even back as far as whatever came on the CD with the card if possible. If not, try what the guy in that post has suggested, following all the steps carefully. There are bound to be many other pages on the web that cover similar problems - use the info from the debug tool with google searches - a lot of answers are found that way.

Good luck!

lamanga2004 · 09-09-2010, 06:07 AM

Hello all. A quick update.

I already am on XP Service Pack 3, so the two KnowledgeBase articles mentioned in the NGOHQ thread are already on my machine.

The last thing I tried was modifying the BIOS frequency settings - I changed the memory speed from 800 MHz to 667 MHz.

So far, no crashes, after about 3-4 hours of game play.

I'll update either in a week, or the next time it crashes, whichever comes first.

Kudos to this site. It is now in my favourites folder.

**abc** · 09-09-2010, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lamanga2004

The last thing I tried was modifying the BIOS frequency settings - I changed the memory speed from 800 MHz to 667 MHz.

So far, no crashes, after about 3-4 hours of game play.

That's interesting yet slightly embaressing due to my assumption earlier:

Quote:

Originally Posted by abc

I was going to say that this sounds like a memory issue but memtest is pretty solid

I really did think memtest would have picked this sort of thing up if it was a memory instability issue. Memory gets unstable when:

* it's faulty
* it's too hot
* is running too fast (or even too slow btw) for it's temp
* some parts of the memory (unload timings) are running too fast (or even too slow btw) for other parts of the memory (e.g. load timings)

* Have you (or anyone) ever overclocked any components of your PC?
* Is the RAM new since last summer? (Sorry I don't know your location, if you're in the sothern hemispehere it'll be summer & therefore very high ambient temperatures that new RAM may be unable to cope with)
* Are any exhaust/intake fans broken/not-running-as-they-should? Try taking the side off and getting all the dust & cobwebs out!

Good job on the debugging nibbles! I know firsthand how much time & effort it takes converting the minidump files to a useful readable error message.

lamanga2004 · 09-09-2010, 04:15 PM

Arrrrgggghhhh! Just crashed again. Here's my little log of what I did since yesterday (hrb = hard reboot)

201009081105 - turned down the windows sound hardware acceleration - https://activision.custhelp.com/cgi-...i=&p_topview=1
201009081133 - crashed to desktop - iw4mp.exe was at fault
201009081147 - crashed BSOD - took a photo of screen and a video of the noise - post STOP error here xxxxxxxxx
201009081224 - freeze and hrb
201009081258 - disabled all startup and services - but noted first which Startup and Services were ticked - see files on desktop "startup" and "services" - https://activision.custhelp.com/cgi-...i=&p_topview=1
201009081306 - just about to boot up the game, but note that fan is spinning slowly because ATI CCC is now not available - play on anyway
201009081334 - freeze and hrb - GPU was up to 115 deg C
201009081341 - added CCC and Razer HID services back in at startup - via msconfig
201009081409 - in BIOS changed memory frequency from 800MHz to 667MHz
201009081512 - played two full games and no crash, going back to work
201009082129 - just played 90 minutes with no crash

201009092109 - just crashed after about 60 mins - freeze and hrb

**abc** · 09-09-2010, 04:20 PM

The memory on a GFX card gets seriously hot, often much hotter than the GPU. Any chance you happen to know the GPU, shader & GFX memory temps? If not I know you mentioned the GPU temps earlier, what were they if you don't mind me asking and how did you obtain them? (GFX cards heat up and cool down very quickly, so even by the time a game crashes to desktop and you look at the temp it will have fallen 10 degrees or more already)

lamanga2004 · 09-09-2010, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abc

* Have you (or anyone) ever overclocked any components of your PC?
* Is the RAM new since last summer? (Sorry I don't know your location, if you're in the sothern hemispehere it'll be summer & therefore very high ambient temperatures that new RAM may be unable to cope with)
* Are any exhaust/intake fans broken/not-running-as-they-should? Try taking the side off and getting all the dust & cobwebs out!

1. Never overclocked it. ATI card, via Catalyst Control Centre (CCC), is running on lowest settings for GPU and Memory Clock. Fan at 100%. I have turned the GPU and Memory Clock settings up higher before now though.

2. RAM not new.

3. I actually unplugged one fan thinking it might be a variable drain on 12V2 rail, but this neither solved the problem nor made it appreciably worse.

I shall get the vacuum cleaner out in 5 minutes!

lamanga2004 · 09-09-2010, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abc

The memory on a GFX card gets seriously hot, often much hotter than the GPU. Any chance you happen to know the GPU, shader & GFX memory temps? If not I know you mentioned the GPU temps earlier, what were they if you don't mind me asking and how did you obtain them? (GFX cards heat up and cool down very quickly, so even by the time a game crashes to desktop and you look at the temp it will have fallen 10 degrees or more already)

This is from GPU-Z the other night just before it crashed:

GPU Temp.(DISPIO) 106.5°C
GPU Temp.(MEMIO) 115.0 °C
GPU Temp.(SHADERCORE) 114.0°C

I wasn't running GPU-Z just now because I thought the memory speed change had fixed things. Silly me to be so presumptious.

oneinchwunda · 09-09-2010, 04:51 PM

^^ WOAH. I think we have the source of our problems.

lamanga2004 · 09-09-2010, 04:52 PM

Right, I just hoovered out the inside of the case. There were no cobwebs, I'm please to report, and to be honest there was not that much dust either.

Whilst I was at it, I reconnected the previously disconnected small rear fan to the 12V2 rail.

I'm proper stumped now. I thought that memory speed thing (800MHz to 667MHz) had fixed it.

**abc** · 09-09-2010, 04:59 PM

Ohhhhhhhh hold your horses...

Annoyingly (because nVidia do it. Intel do it. AMD do it.) ATI don't appear to officialy post max temps for their GPUs but there are lots of unofficial claims on some very good websites and they seem very reasonable, those claims are 105 to 110 degrees essentially. Triple figures are very VERY bad regardless. Fan speed makes no difference when it's this hot as whether it's 60% or 100% the heatsink can't cope so anyway so the fan makes no difference.

Temps over 60 degrees C without an OC would be considered bad. Over 100 degrees C in any case is mental. Do you have a refference card, looks near identical to this:

Or a non-refference card which will be anything drastically different from the above in terms of the cooler, e.g. this sort of thing:

Temps that high can permanently damage the GFX card's components and that may therefore explain why crashes also occur at much lower temps.

Try checking for GPU stability by running a program called furmark. No need to mess around with settings, just open it and hit go and hope it sufficiently heats up your GPU (By the way, feel more than free stop the program if the temps get near 100 degrees, that'd be evidence enough that your GPU is getting too hot)

There is little you can do for free in order to improve GPU temps, but removing 3 years of dust is a great start. Maybe after removing the dust and checking temperatures, if they are still too high of course, it'd be a good idea to look at your overall cooling as other components can have a huge effect on each other - for example it'd be no good if the air your 4850's cooler sucked in was the same air that just passed over a 65 degree C CPU...

P.S. All temps I quote, and I assume you quote, are in degrees celsius (I see you did put degrees C, but I'm just clairfying my post)

lamanga2004 · 09-09-2010, 07:28 PM

Just crashed again, with temps in the 110+ range.

I think the card looks more like the first one.

I'll run furmark and see what happens. Thanks, and goodnight!

Edit: I chickened out at this point:

108.5 , 119.5 , 115.5

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