Imunality

Mhm, I'm buying a brand new computer in the next week or so but I haven't decided what parts I want. I have some friends of mine that can build it if I get the parts but I've been away from PC gaming for so long I haven't been up to date with the GPU's, CPU's, motherboards etc etc so I would require some help with that. I've got plenty of money in my budget but I don't want to waste all of it for something that might not be a priority when I'm going to study. I do wish to be able to play bc2 and cod4 fluently though and perhaps even get a computer strong enough for bf3. Let's say that I've got $2500 - $3000 to spend, what is the most favourable fabric of a PC where I will get the most value for my money? TIA!

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OzballO

Lol @ $2500-$3000 From my limited err research, you won't need to spend all that to get a gaming computer to handle bf3. Unless oversea pricing on parts is a lot more than it is here in the states.

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Imunality

As I mentioned, I don't have much insight in the PC genre anymore. I talked to some of my friends and it seems like $1000 - $1500 is enough if you get the pieces at the correct places. if there's anything wrong in this reply, please disregard because I'm loaded..

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Bad Company 2 - Level 50 in 239 hours. ~ Black ops - Prestige 14 level 50 in 7 days. ~ Mw2 - Prestige 10 level 70.

HBK

Disregarded.

Gimme some of your monies.

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GhostHands

abc suggested a really substantial rig for me last year for $850 with an i5 so with that much more of a budget you can go for an Intel i7 if you wanted. When I'm on a proper computer I'll post the link to the build he helped me with. I still haven't gotten to build it because of stupid arse reasons.

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Imunality

That would be great. I've got a friend whom recently bought a strong computer and he said that he could make some suggestions wether it be AMD/Intel or Gforce/ATI and make some lists with all the parts included and see where the budget will have to drop.

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Bad Company 2 - Level 50 in 239 hours. ~ Black ops - Prestige 14 level 50 in 7 days. ~ Mw2 - Prestige 10 level 70.

GhostHands

Here is the list abc proposed. Since this was done sometime last year the prices/rebates have surely changed. However, it's a good place to start. Personally, I'd get a 1TB HDD over a 500Gb. Click for enlarged view.



Here is a pretty good discussion between another member (lol) and abc regarding a PC build. Be sure to read abc's response in red.

building a computer, need experts to confirm

And, this link is invaluable.

Ye olde computermobile components guide

And as always, if you need a monitor I recommend Acer. I'm an Acer fangirl I guess.

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abc

Intel/AMD or nVidia/ATI is complete rubbish so don't let fanboys sway you. Unlike in the past all four make some brilliant and very competitive components.

Having a $1k to $3k budget is ridiculous and very difficult. This is the sort of money where common sense goes out of the window and you end up specing "overclocked plus PLUS" GFX cards instead of just the "Overclocked+" or "overclocked" or even the absolutely standard ones JUST because it comes ready setup for water cooling or has an extra 15 MHz (which is what, 1 - 2%) overclock over another card.

Likewise an all-you-need case can be had for sensible money, but with such an undefined budget we'll end up specing a ridiculous case because it looks "a little bit better than another one which is $80 less."

Ditto with motherboard and CPU.

Also don't forget that the box full of bits is only half the story. Gaming is about senses, sound, vision etc so it's well worth getting a massive screen, surround sound and a high quality gaming mouse. Sound is something people overlook too much. You don't have to spend much (at all!) to get a system that will make a room shake. Besides gunshots should be loud and explosions should be suitably boomy.



You need to consider your budget much more carefully. The fact that you're asking assistance to choose bits and haven't had a gaming PC for a while would suggest that you're not "enthusiast" enough to be buying brand new tech purely because it's new or spending $700 per GFX card just because it's nice to own incredible tech when a card costing half that would still perform really well.

With a blank cheque yet the underlying urge to still get value for money, I'd spec (in this vague order of importance!)

• 24" minimum good brand monitor. Probably splash out on LED. I'd take a good look at 3D, though it'd have to be much MUCH better than console 3D games to be worthwhile.
• Surround sound setup
• A GFX card sufficient for all current games at the res of your screen (likely to be AMD if we're still looking for value for money)
• 1 TB Samsung F3
• Corsair HX*** PSU
• Mid range gaming mouse & gaming mouse mat
• i5/i7 depending on overall budget
• A nice case - may as well
• Mid range motherboard & RAM as you probably won't be going nuts overclocking or have 8 hard drives in RAID
• If money is left, a big SSD drive.
• DVD drive
• OS - windows 7 home premium no doubt. 64 bit maybe.

When you are presented with a bigger-than-average budget in life it is nice to go for the "extra special" stuff. Maybe consider ATI eyefinity (3/6 monitors wrapping around you) but with smaller screens (22") Other "extra special" suggestions would be the 3D monitor, LED monitor. Thinks like surround sound and a gaming mouse make such a difference you should consider them essential as opposed to "extra special" with a flexible budget. Likewise with a flexible budget it would be silly to cut corners, so stick with the most reliable brands for all your components.


Buy wisely and everything falls into place.

A really good single phrase summary: spec what you NEED first and what you WANT after

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This is getting repetitive.

Imunality

Thank you!

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abc

This is a good place to start then. Spec a PC that can fufil this and then see how much it costs. That will then give you an idea of how much more money is left over for extras like those nice upgrades in the GFX card, RAM or SSD department.

I think components are much more standardised than they used to be. There are only 2 major reasons that I can think of why a modern motherboard wouldn't be compatible with a choice of components. As the actual motherboard does pretty much nothing in terms of performance (i.e. you don't get 20 FPS more if you buy a more expensive motherboard) it's a better idea to start with the key components first (CPU, GFX card) then grab a motherboard that fits.


Take a look at the Guru3D VGA charts, they're an excellent resource. These give an idea of the average FPS a certain card will get on some key games. Most are done at 1920*1200 with absolutely the highest settings possible (importantly including Anti-Aliasing which is an absolute GFX card eater) but make sure you read the text to double check. Drop down menu at the top selects different games.

Looking at the BC2 page VGA Charts Spring 2011 it'd seem (looking at 60 FPS and above) that you're looking at pretty much some of the fastest single GFX card solutions available or pairing two high end GFX cards together in a SLI or CF setup.

Difficult one that as both of those routes have drawbacks that'd make me think twice. I think the answer, rather than get hung up on which GFX card, is to simply turn Anti Aliasing down a little bit to free up some frames saving yourself not only $300 (which isn't really the point here admittedly) but a lot of thinking and deciding (which is the point)

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This is getting repetitive.

Imunality

I've been looking around with my friend (approximately 30-40 min :>) and even though I told him I didn't need an overkill computer, here are some parts that he suggested:

-ASUS SABERTOOTH 990FX AM3+ ATX
-AMD PHENOM II X4 955 BE 3.2GHZ 8MB SOCKET AM3 BOX
-CORSAIR 6GB DDR3 XMS3
-Either geforce gtx or an ATI card with the approximate value of $420.

He also specificly told me that he'd get me a copy of the v7 64bit system because the 32 bit had trouble handling dividing attention between multiple cores. I like to have more than one source to rely on so I thought I'd double check here. I noticed that the motherboard is insane overkill so I'm probably going to change that to another one.

Regarding the Graphic card, the ASUS GEFORCE GTX 570 DIRECTCU II 1280MB PCI-E DVI/HDMI might be a card for me. I like what I saw but then again I am no expert.

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OzballO

So since I am looking at building a computer why are you looking at a Phenom 955? Just curious cause I am looking into an Intel i5 2500k. Just curious on performance differences. I suppose abc could help me out on that point.

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Imunality

Intel i5 2500k:
- Almost double the price of the AMD Phenom
- 3.3 GHz 4 cores
- 64 bit architecture
- 6 Mb L3 chache

AMD PHENOM II X4:
- price ~
- 3.2 GHz 4 cores
- 64 bit architecture
- 8 Mb L2 cache

I'm not certain what differentiates L2 from L3 but I'll look into that right away and edit the post later.

e: L3 is a larger cache which can withhold more information but has higher latency. "The benefits of an L3 cache depend on the application's access patterns." If the CPU can't read it form the cache it causes a delay since it has to read the information from the main memory. So if you have higher cache the CPU can work faster since it can load the essentials from the cache and it doesn't have to operate with the other components.

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Bad Company 2 - Level 50 in 239 hours. ~ Black ops - Prestige 14 level 50 in 7 days. ~ Mw2 - Prestige 10 level 70.

oneinchwunda

The Phenom has L3 cache, 6MB IIRC.

Search google for a benchmarking site called "Anandtech". Read it for yourself; the i5 2500k blows the Phenom several miles out of the water.

For your kind of money I would be looking at the following:

i5 2500k along with an aftermarket cooler (emphasis on noise, not performance here probably)
P67 motherboard with Xfire and decent overclocking (difficult to find one that doesn't do both tbh)
8GB RAM (4GB is fine, but why not if you've got $$$), probably 1600MHz as it's not really any more expensive then 1333MHz.
GPU- Probably ATI, but this depends on how much you have left. For reference, you will probably looking at the HD6950 or GTX580.
Case- In your budget you will easily get something both aesthetically pleasing and easy to work with 80GBP will get you something like a Fractal or Coolermaster case with good enough quality and plenty of features to keep you going for ages.
PSU- Something modular and about 750W would be ideal, possibly 850W if you go Nvidia. XFX are very popular and good value at the moment.

Hard drives is a big discussion point. A single Samsung F3 1TB will serve you perfectly. If you have anything left over, you can splash out on an SSD. These things tend to be love or hate. Those who use them dread the thought of going back to a mechanical drive and tbh, they do improve system responsiveness and overall speed significantly. Games and Windows will of course load much quicker aswell, which for some is a big advantage, less so for others.

If you think you will benefit from it, go for it, you will be delighted. If you think they are still poor value, then stay away. Drives to look out for at the moment are the OCZ Agility 3 (claims of poor reliability) and the Crucial M4 (slower but more reliable).

Then of course add a dvd (bluray if you really want) drive, a copy of Windows 7 64-bit, and any peripherals you need.

I would start with speccing up the needs, CPU, RAM, case, PSU etc., as abc said, and then budget what you have left on the GPU and possibly SSD and peripherals

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Imunality

I'll read it tomorrow after work, thank you. I've got a DVD driver in my older computer and I'll use that, simply because I wont use it that much so I'm not in need of a new one. I will probably go for the i5 / i7 since money really isn't the problem (not trying to boast but you get it) if what you say is true about the link. I'm not dl'ing so much so a 500 GB would suit me better unless the 1 TB's are faster. Another CPU fan will also be purchased.

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Serval

If you plan to record gameplay footage then it'll probably be worth having a separate hard drive to record into, which could mean either getting a SSD big enough to hold your OS and game X, Y or Z and recording into your storage drive or just having a second mechanical one.

/Has contributed to a tech thread, perhaps.

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oneinchwunda

Very valid point, Serval.

To be honest, I never found much of a difference with Fraps and the like, but for some people it does help a lot.

How old is your DVD drive? I ask because the new P67 chipset doesn't actually have any IDE ports, so make sure it is SATA.

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Imunality

I discussed this matter at work my colleague and I think it's SATA because it's not that old. Most of new motherboards only allow SATA as input iirc.

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Imunality

Derp double post derp

I didn't find anything that was comparing the two CPU's, instead I found out that the Phenom II x4 955 Be doesn't need any more voltage for an OC up to 3.8 GHz and it performs better than the Intel cores in the same price class. Quoted directly from AnandTech: "We hesitate to call this a high-end system, since the most expensive Phenom II is just $245. This is an upper midrange CPU price. Performance, however, is the best you will find with any CPU south of the Intel Core i7." This posts was however made in 2009 so it's invalid, too much has happened during these two years.

Whilst looking at a review of the i5 2500k it is said to have a quad core design that features Hyper-Threading technology on some models, which effectively doubles the number of threads to eight. Now this is interesting as that is alot better than the 955. I found a very good site that is based in sweden that offers the i5 2500k cheaper than the Phenom II x4 955 Be so I'm guessing I'll pick that. Anything to add?


Just read that the 955 has 2 MB L2 cache and 6 MB L3 cache, to correct what I wrote earlier.

__________________


Bad Company 2 - Level 50 in 239 hours. ~ Black ops - Prestige 14 level 50 in 7 days. ~ Mw2 - Prestige 10 level 70.

abc

Typing this on an iPod, not even an ipD so FML on that one... Hence this will be brief.

Comparing spec between AMD/intel and ATI/nvidia is suicide. The fact is they are so different and so complicated you can't sum up performance with a few numbers. A good example would be a BMW M3 and a rousche ford mustang: both have circa 4.4 - 5.0 L V8 engines, both have roughly 400 and a bit BHP and both do north of 165 MPH. stats look the same but they could not be more different.

I must stress, as others have, that an AMD CPU is a very odd choice for this budget. Intel i5 CPUs really are worth the extra money for a mid range system let alone one with $420 of GFX card. 'Upper mid range' is a nice way to describe the 955 which puts the 'absolutely extreme high end' motherboard into question. not a cost or performance effective match.

Through pure coincidence in the way it's manufactured the 1TB F3 is exactly as fast as the 500GB (usually big = slow) It is also a trivial amount more, maybe $10. Moving to a bigger HDD after running out of space is a MASSIVE PAIN. For what equates to 0.33% of your budget it sounds silly not to go for the safety the 1TB offers.

Personally I'd want to read a proffessional review before I bought an XFX PSU over the tried and tested market leader Corsair.


I'll make a basket on new egg in a few hours, see what I'd come up with.

That is all I feel I need to add to what Ozballo has said.

__________________
"I don't like new Linkin Park, I don't like old Linkin Park... I JUST LIKE LINKIN PARK"

COD owner - COD expansion pack owner - COD2 owner - COD2: BRO player - COD3 owner - COD4 owner - COD:WaW owner - COD: MW2 owner - COD: BO owner

This is getting repetitive.

Imunality

I already said that I will change the motherboard since it's insane overkill. I found a site that has free shiping if you're a member on sweclockers and my friend is so I can get my whole computer home to me without paying anything extra, plus that the i5 2500k is only $254 which $9 more expensive than the most expensive 955 which performs on a lower level. I've always had nVidia too and never ever dealt with AMD but my I guess my friend is a little Phenom fanboy because he has had great experience with it. However, this is my computer and I make the final call and I "only take suggestions" from people. A 1 TB has to be a tad slower than a 500 GB since the range of the HD is slower it takes less time to scan through for the data required. I doubt that the time difference is significant or profitable so I'm probably going to end up with a 1 TB anyway. I don't need a SSD just yet though, so I will pass on that.

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oneinchwunda

A link to the site your buying from would be nice.

@abc: XFX Pro Series Power Supplies (650W, 750W and 850W) Review - Conclusion
XFX Black Edition 850W Power Supply - Conclusion
Conclusion - XFX Black Edition 750W Power Supply Review | [H]ard|OCP

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abc

Ok, so the MOBO and CPU is cleared up.

Aha! FYI the 1 TB is made from two seperate 500GB "platters" whereas the 500GB model is a single 500GB platter. Because of this the density and physical area of the data is the same as the 500GB. Therefore it takes the exact same time to "seek" and "read/write" data on the 1TB model The actual "where in the 1000 GB is this file stored?" task is handled by the OS and thus depends on CPU/memory/motherboard etc.


As you say, your comp, your choice. I would however strongly recommend one, especially with your budget. For the same reasons (and more come to think of it) as getting the bigger HDD it's very inconvinient to "add" an SSD later unlike the ease of adding more memory or adding an extra card for CF/SLI. SSDs load programs much much faster, boot up faster, use far far far FAR less power lol, programs are far more respeonsive, they are silent and perhaps best of all are virtually immune to the old problem of a PC getting slower as it gets older and "clogged up." SSDs are meant to be small and lightening fast for essential files such as the OS and common programs therefore should not be looked at in terms of storage space per £.


A bit on GFX cards as I've now had time to form an opinion No doubt an SLI/CF setup gives you significantly more FPS for your money. However because of power, heat, space, upgradability and reliability constraints I would still go for a bigger single card. Certain P67 are SLi and CF compatible so no issues there. Therefore this does all come down to price/performance which I shall explain my person choice of later.


As a guideline If I had your money and newegg, this is exactly what I would buy:

• i5 2500k Newegg.com - Intel Core i5-2500K Sandy Bridge 3.3GHz (3.7GHz Turbo Boost) 4 x 256KB L2 Cache 6MB L3 Cache LGA 1155 95W Quad-Core Desktop Processor BX80623I52500K - We've covered the reasons for this pretty well and I know you've decided on it.
• Hyper 212+ cooler Newegg.com - COOLER MASTER Hyper 212 Plus RR-B10-212P-G1 "Heatpipe Direct Contact" Long Life Sleeve 120mm CPU Cooler Compatible Intel Core i5 & Intel Core i7 - this is "the" budget cooler to have. Given the build cost it's well worth getting an aftermarket one mainly for noise reasons with the added bonus of saving a few degrees. I didn't pick a better cooler as there would be no gain from the extra money. Unless you have a serious overclock (which you absolutely will not need to, but some consider this fun) in which case by all means change the cooler and the memory!
• Noctua 120mm fans x2 Newegg.com - Noctua NF-P12-1300 120mm CPU Cooler and Case Fan Again, purely for the fact they will offer the same/more cooling capacity than the stock case fans but at a lower noise level
• G.Skill Ripjaw 2x2GB x2 (i.e. 8GB total) Newegg.com - G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL9D-4GBXL This has long been "the" mid-range performance memory to have. There are two uncertainties with this (and any other) memory choice. 1) Latency: $2 more gets you the same RAm with 1Hz-worth less latency, this will come into play with some serious overclocking but otherwise will gain you so, so, sooooo little I wouldn't even bother spending $2 on it personally 2) Regarding that $2 worth of performance I'd be more worried about getting 2x4GB sticks, but again this only really comes into play when heavily overclocking or would make an unmeasurable difference.
• 1TB Samsung F3 Newegg.com - SAMSUNG Spinpoint F3 HD103SJ 1TB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive as discussed
• Crucial M4 256GB SSD Newegg.com - Crucial M4 CT256M4SSD2 2.5" 256GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) Yes, I know it says $430 on it
• Corsair HX 750 Newegg.com - CORSAIR Professional Series HX750 (CMPSU-750HX) 750W ATX12V 2.3 / EPS12V 2.91 SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS SILVER Certified Modular Active PFC Power Supply I would deliberatly spec the older style corsair. On top of the reputation, reliability, power and 5 year warranty it's modular. Maybe go for the 850w depending on GFX card
• Lian Li KC...something...something Newegg.com - LIAN LI Lancool PC-K62 Black 0.8 mm SECC, Plastic + Mesh ATX Mid Tower Computer Case Lian Li are the Italian supercars of cases. Absolutely top spec and look lovely. Providing it has all the bells and whistles then I shall allow you to pick any case as it's mainly visual prefference
• Gigabyte P67x UD3 Newegg.com - GIGABYTE GA-P67X-UD3-B3 LGA 1155 Intel P67 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard Picked this over other P67s as it has outstanding SLI/CF potential. On top of that it's a UD3 so you know it'll be quality, look good, be good value and have tons of overclocking features should you want them.

TOTAL - $1297 USD without a video card

I'm actually very suprised at how cheap that is given the "extras" like the SSD, spending nearly $100 for the sake of noise reduction etc. When I put the whole noise reduction thing in terms of $100 to be fair it does sound silly. However I think this build strikes the perfect balance between being "special" and still giving fantastic performance without a silly price.

So yes, video cards. How much performance you want is personal. As I said I picked all of the above as if it were me buying it. With that in mind I would spend a mere $330 on an ATI HD6990 OR a GTX 570. Reasons: the 6990 is clearly faster than the 570 but costs the same. The down side of the HD6990 is that nVidia has a reputation for having more reliable drivers (though this is a reputation born years ago so may not be true any more) Should you add a second card then 2 ATI cards offer a much better gain that 2 nVidia cards. The 580 is 20% faster in some games which is a lot, but A) there's no real world difference between 150 and 180 FPS and B) the 580 is approaching very high end and for that reason it's just not very desirable from a price/performance point of view and you'll feel as though your card is getting older faster than if you bought a 570/6990 (this may not make sense xD)

A 6990 or 570 would put you at $1630 ish. Hell of a lot of performance for that...

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This is getting repetitive.

Imunality

Thank you all whom have contributed thus far, I really appreciate it!

Is Newegg avaliable in Europe, specificly Sweden and how long is the avg. shipping time? Your list looks wonderful abc, and I'm seriously contemplating going for all of that list + either GTX 480 or 570. I haven't really compared the two aformentioned graphic cards but since 80 is more high end and probably not alot more expensive we'll see about that. I'm going away for a week now on sunday to next sunday so I wont be able to buy the computer until monday week 29 or now depending on the shipping time. I'll show my two other sources your list and let them have a say in it too because I want to do this properly. (It's not that I don't trust your knowledge, I just don't know YOU that much too conclude what you desire from a computer etc)



@wunda Intel Core i5 2500K 3,3GHz - Inet.se (Inet - Datorbutik, datorer, speldatorer, bärbara datorer - Inet.se) 1719 skr should be approximately $245 if the currency is currently 7 skr / $1.

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abc

Newegg is USA & Canada only. I use them for refference as the prices are in $ and they have a very good selection. I know nothing of European, particularly Swedish, websites.

Few more bits that have occured to me since. R.E. GTX480 vs GTX 570 remember that the 480 is higher end, you're correct, but it is also last generation. So it may be that the slightly lower end 570 is actually faster simply because it's newer. Having just read some reviews I now know that they are near enough identical. Some games the 570 is a tad faster, others the 480 is a tad faster. The 480 is obviously cheaper because it's older even though it's the same performance. In this scenario you'd have to recommend the newer card as it will be more power efficient and run cooler (these are two areas where newer cards always improve on) P.S. I hope you meant to write 480 in your last post and it wasn't a typo of 580

Here is a good GTX 570 review if you want one: GeForce GTX 570 review (I'd skip to the last page if I were you)

__________________
"I don't like new Linkin Park, I don't like old Linkin Park... I JUST LIKE LINKIN PARK"

COD owner - COD expansion pack owner - COD2 owner - COD2: BRO player - COD3 owner - COD4 owner - COD:WaW owner - COD: MW2 owner - COD: BO owner

This is getting repetitive.