Greg

Alright, so I'm looking to buy myself a new desktop PC. The main two things I need are:
- Wifi (since I have a wireless connection in my home).
- 400-500+ GB Hard disk memory.

That's pretty much all I need. I'm going to buy it from a store that lets you chose what to put in the PC, and they will build it. I wanted to ask some basic things about what you'd recommend to put in the PC. Just the basic stuff that's inside. I'm asking because I'd like to get the most efficient stuff for a lower price, if I have a choice. I'm not too great with all this PC stuff.

My budget is 400 Euro (353 Pounds, 575 USD). Thanks for the help.

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Olaf Vikingsson

For that budget, you'll need to build one yourself.

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Greg

I know it's not much, but I'm not looking for a megagalactic PC, just one with a decent amount of memory and wifi. I really need a new one since this laptop can't even load youtube videos anymore without practially freezing for a minute.

I went to that store today and they said that I could get one for around that price.

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abc

Well at least, unlike everyone else, your post didn't start "It has to cost £300 [£50 less than the cheapest computer you can actually buy in the world] and it has to max crysis [THE most demanding game ever made]"


Vis has a completely solid point, unless you look in clearance sections etc you won't find anything with a 500GB HDD.

HOWEVER you are in the eurozone and we are both in England... in the UK because of generally higher taxes and the UK's ridiculous mark-up on everything 400 euro would get you nothing.

However I reckon 400 euro would be about £400~ worth of components abroad. Still can't crack on with recommendations until we know this...


Does 400 euro need to include:
A Monitor?
A keyboard/mouse?
Speakers?

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Greg

Sorry for my late reply abc, I didn't see this thread come up in the "new posts" so I figured no one had posted.

No, the 400 Euro will only go into the actual PC. I already have a monitor (My LCD TV) and the sound will be output from there as well. I already have keyboard and mouse too. It's just for the PC. Even if it isn't 500 GB, at LEAST 400. I need quiete a lot of memory for music and stuff, so I don't want to go under that amount.

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abc

any links to italy's finest PC components shop? Or beign eurzone & all is it perfectly fine to order from ireland or germany?

If you could link a italian shop that has italian prices but for reason text in english that'd be great

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PrkchpsNaplsaws

My suggestion is you use a website like tiger direct.

Here's something i found for $529.00

Click here

Pros
750gb hard drive
8GB RAM
(can support up to 16GB on motherboard)
Windows Vista 64bit (though you may wish to upgrade to windows 7? Or throw windows away and use Linux )
Comes with a wireless NIC


cons
lousy video card
integrated sound card




edit to add:

I just noticed you're in Italy. I still think tiger direct can ship to you - but in case they can't, here's the Italian Versionof their website.

I can't read the language, so you could navigate it and see if they offer the same deal there? Just click on whatever word means "computers"

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Greg

I looked around and the best I could find would be this. It's in Italian, but most PC component names are very similar so I think you'll understand it fine.

http://www.monclick.it/vendite_hdd-c...FQ27ZwodQFic1A

Some things that may be different are: "schede", which means "cards". Example: "Schede video" = "Video cards".
"Lettori" = "Readers"
"Ventole" = "Fans"
Tell me if you need anything else in terms of translating. Hope it helps.

I've just been to the store from which I'm planning to buy it, and told them all the stuff I want. They're going to send me an email with the "options", I'll post them up here as soon as I recieve the email. I'd trust your recommendations more though.
Thanks a lot for looking that up for me man, but I'm definitely going to buy it from a PC components store near me. I can't really buy stuff online at the moment, since my dad's credit card is temporarily inactive so I won't be able to pay.

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abc

And of course tiger direct is based in canada... so hello big shipping charges and currency conversion surcharges from your bank.

What were you thinking, build it yourself or pre-built? Build it yourself is obviously better since you end up with EXACTLY what you want and nothing you don't want. The most difficult bit of building a computer is using this special tool thing they have, apparantly it's been around a long time but basically it's a thin metal stick where the end has sort of 4 points in a cross shape. You operate this tool by aligning the cross shaped pointy end of the stick with the corresponding pointy-shape hole on this other little thing (it's like a bolt but has a hole in the middle, not a hexagon or allen key) It's quite clever, you fasten things by turning it clockwise, and loosen things by turning it anti-clockwise.

No, nothing is hard. It's just time consuming to plug a load of stuff in, then realise it would be much easier to plug component X in before Y, so then you take stuff out and re-arrange it etc.

Misco looks far cheaper, but "IVA esclusa" looks very much like "excluding tax?" Ah right, inclusa = inclusives esclusa = excluding. This italian is easy. At least it's easier than the annoying kid that made me scour a greek (totally diff alphabet) website for a PC then went and bought a PS3.

Actually this "monclick" thing is marginally cheaper overall.

Hmm. Having to use Misco because Monclick don't seem to have a large range of parts. Them seem more "whole PC and some spare parts" as opposed to a "components" shop. This makes me such appreciative of the shop that I buy all my stuff from, cheap, the same language as my native one & a great range...

Also I'm pleased to find I was right about something else, Italian is pretty much english but with "s" changed to "c" and everything has an extra "a, i, o" on the end.


This is genuinly very hard.


Athlon II X2 (dual core. 2.8GHz. there's no hiding it's very low end, but...) http://www.misco.it/store/product.as...ction=carrello
4GB of the cheapest 800MHz (ok speed) RAM http://www.misco.it/store/product.as...ction=carrello
CM Elite (?) 500 ("elite" is a case. "extreme" is a PSU that often comes with the "elite" case. I think they have got confused. Either way this is a bit odd. Extremely cheap but if it wasn't the best budget PSU then I wouldn't have the 650w version. Sure it's loud, but the point is this is easily the most reliable, the most powerful and the most efficient PSU for under 70e) http://www.misco.it/store/product.as...ction=carrello
WD Caviar Blue 500GB (errm. this has to be the most "average" hard drive in the world. no it's not fast but it isn't the slowest. it is slap bang between "cheap nasty brands" and the (cheapest) "go faster" hard drives.) http://www.misco.it/store/product.as...ction=carrello
CM Elite 330 (cheapest case from an ok brand, which isn't made from thin cardboard) http://www.misco.it/store/product.as...ction=carrello (google "elite 330" and I'm sure you'll instantly find a pic)
DVD drive http://www.misco.it/store/product.as...ction=carrello
Asus 630a MOBO (this is the cheapest mobo ever. this is absolutely useful for anything remotely beyond "working." OC'ing is a joke and there is no room to upgrade RAM etc, BUT I picked this because I doubt you'll OC and more importantly it's 20e less than the one that's "worth" getting) http://www.misco.it/store/product.as...aratteristiche
ATI HD4650 (the genius of skimping on... err... everything except amount & speed of ram, quality of PSU & case is that you have 50e spare for a GFX card. Now plainly this isn't very good, but games will work on it and they will work at medium settings with no lag etc) http://www.misco.it/store/product.as...ction=carrello


Total 402.72 euro




All of that is actually perfectly respectable. The only truely "horrid" bit of that is the motherboard, but unless you want 8GB of RAM (which I'm telling you, "you don't") or to OC, or to upgrade CPU in 3 years then it is absolutely fine.

The only thing I'd consider changing is dropping the GFX card and upgrading to an Athlon II X4 630 (exactly the same as the current CPU, but quad not dual core and "only" 2.6GHz not 2.8GHz) I would do this because you're not missing much trying to game on the above system, you have a PS3, you can always add a GFX card later & a quad will make a big difference to any photo/video/music editting AND a quad core will last say 4 years before needing an upgrade whereas a dual will only last 2 years (totally made up numbers)





The same money on a prebuilt gets you about two and half bags of peanuts. http://www.misco.it/store/product.as...sottocategoria

That has an equal sort of speed CPU, half the amount of RAM (big difference...) & a smaller HDD, it looks AWFUL, it physically is not big enough for a decent GFX card (should you ever want one) the PSU will no doubt break if you tried to add virtually anything else (e.g. hard drives, DVD drives, graphics cards etc)






EDIT: At this budget it's definitely worth looking at refubished stuff if you can find somewhere near you that does it. Buying a pre-built is fine, but I really do suggest you run it by the forum first.

I have nothing to gain by lying or exaggerating and saying something is much better than it is. Does the salesman have a reason to exaggerate how good the PC he's trying to sell you is?

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indokyne

i understand you're stressing the storage space (500GB+) but that shouldn't be the main concern w/ the prices that harddrives are going for nowadays

I'd start out w/ an AMD 550 BE II chip - $100 gets you dual core (possibly quad core depending on your luck with the unlocking process)

abc

He has a budget of what works out as ~$395 once you consider european sales & import taxes.



An AMD Phenom II X2 550 BE costs you (US) $100
Exactly the same AMD Phenom II X2 550 BE costs us (EU) $130

I'm sure you can work out that is 30% more



An ATI HD5970 costs you (US) $699
An ATI HD5970 costs us (EU) a staggering $1026

I'm sure you can work out that is a STUPIDLY massive 47% more...



And it's not just main items or really high end stuff (Like HD5970) that is a silly price. And then consider throwing a rebate into the mix! take corsairs entry level PSU:

Corsair CX400 with rebates in (US) $39.99
Corsair CX400 in EU with no rebates $70

That's an even more stupid 80% more expensive in the EU.

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Greg

Thanks a bunch abc. As soon as they send me the email (still waiting for it) I think I'll reply back and tell them that I want these components if possible. My only concern would be: do they have all the bits? As I said earlier, I'm unable to buy anything from internet at the moment, so hopefully they'll have the bits. I'll mention the upgrade to quad as well.

One thing: wifi. To have wifi on a desktop, do you need to buy a component that has that function? I've told them that I need wifi, so they're taking that into consideration as well.

*waits for email*

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Schosch

Of course. A USB WLAN stick for about 15-20€ will do the trick (or you could get a PCI card instead).

abc

One of those ^^^ just looks like a big USB memory stick with a flashing light, so you just leave that plugged in permanently and hello internet. they are rather cheap.

It'll be interesting to see what they offer you for 400e

Do you care about being able to play games?

One very strong point about the above system with NO GFX card and upgrading to the quad instead, is if you do decide to get a good GFX card with birthday money or w/e, you will then end up with a perfectly respectable 4GB RAM/2.8GHz Quad core/Good GFX card. Whilst that will never beat a system like mine which has expensive 4GB RAM and an expensive triple core and an expensive hard drive on a relatively high end mobo... it does actually come pleasingly close considering it will cost you 200e less. If your curious what 200e more would get you is something that's a little bit faster stock, extremely fast if OC'd but most of all upgradable (e.g. space for two GFX cards, can cope with a monolithic high end quad core, can cope with ridiculously fast RAM and 8 hard drives not to mention it will overclock pretty much as well as realistically possible for non-stupid amounts of money)

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Greg

Ok, I see. Well, gaming is not my main concern, but I am planning to get COD4, but I'm still going to be sticking to PS3 most of the time for gaming. I don't think COD4 is very demanding, is it? Apart from that, the only "game" I'll probably be playing is Frets On Fire, which is just a free Guitar Hero/Rock Band for the PC.
I'll definitely consider the update to quad core if you recommend it.

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abc

The quad comes at the expense of playing COD4 & rockband.

See what a quad (orange one) will do for you here (yeah my bad. Both the dual and the quad are BOTH 2.8GHz) AnandTech Bench (beta): AMD Athlon II X2 240e vs AMD Athlon II X4 630

Pretty much, anything to do with heavy editting. Videos, photoshop, music, graphics, 3d, animation, CAD etc the quad absolutely annihilates the dual core.

Anything else, MS office & gaming there is a small difference (games are very hard to program to use 4 cores. 2 is fantastic, 3 is a nice jump in FPS for money but 4 cores don't = twice as fast as a dual)

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Greg

Ah, I see what you're saying. In that case I think duo will be more convenient for what I'm going to use the PC for. I do use PS and watch videos often, but that's a bit less important than other stuff. Thanks.

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abc

PS & watching vids (by video, I meant advanced & frequent editting of HD stuff) would be absolutely "ok" on a simpler dual core. That also leaves you 50e which can either be spread across a few bits (i.e. slightly nicer case, slightly nicer mobo, faster HDD etc might afford a nicer CPU) or spent on a GFX card suitable for "light" gaming. Light in terms of hours spent. COD4 is a very easy game to run, so too incidentally is MW2, but not WaW/crysis/far cry 2 etc

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Greg

Dual core it is then. I don't edit videos at all, so I would kind of be paying extra for something that won't be as useful as it could be. I think I'll keep those 50e and spend them for another HDMI cable, which I need to connect it to my LCD. I know, you don't need it, since you can use the RGB, but I want the high quality since it's on a big screen and just RGB doesn't look as good.

Talk about HDMI, I just wanted to ask you about HDMI/DVI. On the back of my TV, there are 2 HDMI slots. One has "HDMI" written on it, and the other has "DVI". I've already asked some people and from what I understand, DVI is the "older" version of HDMI. One of the slots (HDMI) is already occupied by my PS3, so I have to use the other one (DVI) for the PC. If I plug the PC into the DVI slot will it still be alright? Do I need just a HDMI cable, or is the DVI a seperate one? I'm asking because HDMI cables are pretty expensive, and I don't want to go out and buy the wrong thing.

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abc

does your TV have an "audio in?"

If by "LCD" you do mean "TV" does it have it's own speakers or will you use external (e.g. DVD player surround sound) speakers?

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Greg

Yes, by "it" I mean the TV, which is an LCD and can also be used as a PC monitor because it has an RGB slot. I've already used the TV as a PC monitor before, but with the RGB, which doesn't give you high definition. I took some photos of the back of my TV to show you what I mean.
There is an "Audio in" slot which says "Audio in RGB/DVI". I have a cable plugged in there, but that's from my other PC which is still plugged in. Never mind that because I'm going to get rid of it anyway. I'm guessing I'll need a DVI cable, then I'll just plug in the PC's audio cable into the "Audio in" slot, which is compatible with DVI apparently. As I said, I've already used another PC with the TV, and the audio comes out of the TV's speakers.

Attached Images

SSL24034.jpg (89.5 KB, 6 views)

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abc

LOL WTF. Is says "DVI" fairly damn clearly, then has a HDMI slot. A DVI cable looks like this:

[imghttp://www.cablek.com/client_file/upload/image/dvi-cable-pic.jpg][/img]

and it plugs into this:





By the looks & sound of things you'll need a DVI>HDMI adapter & an HDMI cable. Depending on the mobo you may also need a VGA>DVI adapter.

So it goes:

TV
HDMI cable
DVI>HDMI adapter
DVI cable
VGA>DVI adapter

With audio going from "centre audio out" to TV's audio in. Damn this is confusing. Since the MOBO outputs in 5.1 you may need a 3.5mm stereo > mono splitter as well.

It isn't just the pic & the light, the bottom thing labled "DVI" is definitely a HDMI slot. I guess it just means "DVI compatible."



DVI>HDMI adapter



It really depends what output your mobo will have. Either VGA or DVI (probs VGA due to age & cheapness of mobo) A better mobo or even a very cheap (but modern) GFX card will have stuff like HDMI out, DVI out, Displayport out, SPDIFF Audio out, SVIDEO out and come with a load of DVI>HDMI adapters.

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Greg

Ya, that's what confused me, the DVI slot is exactly the same as the HDMI one, so I figured they were the same, but the one that said "DVI" could have HDMI or DVI. If the slot is the same, I'll just get another HDMI cable and use that. For the audio, as you can see in my pic, there's a cable that goes directly from the PC to the "audio in" slot. You said HDMI was audio and video, so if I get a HDMI, the problem will be solved.

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abc

what are you going to do if your mobo is VGA out?

VGA > DVI adapter + DVI > HDMI adapter?

And VGA doesn't have audio out anyway... so HDMI won't have audio... because audio comes from the sound card not the GPU. This is gonna be somewhat confusing. See what whoever you emailed has to say before you think too much about this.

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This is getting repetitive.

Greg

Ya... I'm still waiting on that god damn email.

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